tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post422972960198945280..comments2024-03-27T15:16:57.305-05:00Comments on F This Movie!: Heath Holland On...Superman UnboundPatrick Bromleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00771837625286775607noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-51047033951475593912013-05-18T17:36:54.389-05:002013-05-18T17:36:54.389-05:00Brad, I think you and I are the only ones in this ...Brad, I think you and I are the only ones in this thread now. It's so quiet...let's go looting.<br /><br />I've heard nothing but good things about Morrison's Animal Man books. They are definitely on my list. I think my caution with him started when he took over X-Men back in the early 2000s. I had been reading that book monthly and his tenure was a crazy departure from my normal spandex soap opera, it was like cold water had been thrown on me. Then he took over something else I had been reading, and I began to grow suspicious and resentful. But I was also a lot younger, and I didn't know what "good" was. I'm not convinced I do now, either, but I try. So I don't feel that way anymore, but I can't say I've gone back and read anything by him recently, either. I was reading his Batman comics, but I haven't read anything from him since the New 52 started. <br /><br />Going back to the animated movies, I REALLY enjoyed the shorts that they put on some of those movies for a while. Were they called One Shots? I can't remember. The Green Arrow one and the Jonah Hex one were my favorites. I would love to see more things like that. You're right: enough Superman and Batman. There's hundreds of characters in that universe, and they all deserve to have stories told about them. And Marvel really needs to get their act together because their direct to DVD movies SUCK. Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-27234094372860872662013-05-18T03:35:00.277-05:002013-05-18T03:35:00.277-05:00Regarding the story choices I think Brainiac is ab...Regarding the story choices I think Brainiac is about as close to a modern fan favorite as you can get, but Superman for all seasons is up there and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't made very soon. However I am more interested now in non-Superman/Batman stories. I'm looking forward to Flashpoint as it will have Flash front and centre but with the safety net of Batman in a major role. I'd like another Wonder Woman movie or making Identity Crisis (my favorite DCU wide story). The green Lantern saga would be interesting but First Flight kinda did Sinestro. <br /><br />Regarding Morrison, his style is such that the ending of his stories nearly always put earlier events into a clear context, while during the story they can seem random or confusing. I would always suggest finishing a Morrison story when you've started one for that reason. Also if you like more 80s style comics (I know that's not what you said) I would highly recommend reading his Animal Man (3 trades worth). Fantastic read, and sets up the blue print for his philosophy that permeates through most of his work ever since. Brad Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426952757794850746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-64361374268198906462013-05-18T00:54:45.477-05:002013-05-18T00:54:45.477-05:00It definitely sounds like I should watch it. I did...It definitely sounds like I should watch it. I did read the first collected edition of the story and it was fine. Morrison is an awesome, incredibly interesting guy, but I don't always "get" it. Sometimes it feels like math. I like him a lot as a person, but I got into comics in the late 80s, so I don't know if that's why, but I don't always like abstract concepts in my comics. This is all changing as I'm getting older, though. <br /><br />The choices for these animated movies are really strange to me. I get Dark Knight Returns, I get Year One, and I get Under the Red Hood, but why not consistently try to adapt your best selling stories? Why not a trilogy on the Green Lantern/Blackest Night story? Or instead of this Superman story, why not Superman: For All Seasons, to introduce people to the more realistic version of the character? I'd even take a solo Catwoman movie, since the live action one was so terrible. The new president of DC entertainment has tried to connect all of their assets together and bring the comics, movies, and video games together under one big umbrella so that the comics seed all those other things. But some of these choices have me scratching my head.Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-84925207472767185562013-05-17T22:18:49.138-05:002013-05-17T22:18:49.138-05:00Wow, cool. We are coming at this from very differe...Wow, cool. We are coming at this from very different positions. I love Morrison (and not as in "I really like him" love but as in "if I met him my fiance would have some serious competition" love) his work is so re-readable, it never gets old. Very layered, very intellectual, very awesome. Your view on Quietly's art i kinda get, I felt similarly about it at first but once I got used to it I not only started to appreciate it but I now I prefer it to most other styles (with the exception of Chris Burnham, he's my current favourite artist, and its just a coincidence he is the current Morison artist...sort of).<br /><br />The movie though runs into some of the same problems as the Superman/Batman movies, in that the comic was so specifically designed around the single issue format that when its compressed into a movie it feels very clunky and disjointed. All Star suffers from this a lot, but (like Morrison's work) if you think about why they made the decisions they did it is possible to gain an appreciation for it. As in, the issues they chose to adapt are thematically "right" but it still makes for a clunky movie. <br /><br />Ultimately I think it fails as a movie, but with one or two alterations it could have been a contender but it holds the source material in too high regard and is too scared to make the necessary changes to make the movie work.<br /><br />#approriatediscussionforaSupermanUnboundthread<br />Brad Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426952757794850746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-10840329461316769412013-05-17T21:34:22.021-05:002013-05-17T21:34:22.021-05:00Hmmmm...okay, full disclosure, I've never watc...Hmmmm...okay, full disclosure, I've never watched All Star Superman all the way through. I've watched parts of it, but I have the same issue with it that I have with the comic: Frank Quietly. I am learning to appreciate Grant Morrison (I used to loathe his writing) but that art from Frank Quietly that the animated film tried to faithfully reproduce kind of freaks me out. I think a lot of it is the lips. Everyone looks like Angelina Jolie! It's just SO distracting for me. I should try to rewatch it, though.Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-83322829627800983172013-05-16T19:01:56.430-05:002013-05-16T19:01:56.430-05:00Ok no worries. I misunderstood what you meant by U...Ok no worries. I misunderstood what you meant by Unbound being a step backwards from nearly everything that preceded it. All good. <br />I wasn't a huge fan of Year one (the narration just didn't work at all. The best exclusion of DKR), but I did enjoy Doom which is about where I'd place Unbound.<br />Whenever a new one of these come out I end up revisiting some of the other entries, this time I revisited Allstar Superman. The most frustrating of all entries. <br />What are your thoughts on Allstar?Brad Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426952757794850746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-82168887209370584872013-05-16T16:11:21.049-05:002013-05-16T16:11:21.049-05:00Ol' Red Boots is my new hobo name.Ol' Red Boots is my new hobo name.Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-42153596936849060962013-05-16T15:57:55.945-05:002013-05-16T15:57:55.945-05:00I don't mind that we disagree, but I just want...I don't mind that we disagree, but I just want to make it clear that I am not comparing this to all DC animated movies. And I certainly never said that it's the worst, because it's not. I'm saying for the past few years, they've gotten better and better. This particular film comes hot on the heels of Batman: Year One, Justice League: Doom, and The Dark Knight Returns Parts I and II. In my opinion, ALL of those are not just good comic book movies, but good movies period. And I understand about grading on a curve, but with this not being a comic book site, I know that this review is going to be read by people who have never stepped foot inside a comic shop. If/when Snyder's Man of Steel is successful, a lot of people are going to come looking for Superman stories that will make them feel the way that movie is going to make them feel. They're going to want to see something that shows the emotion and the conflict that Superman deals with as being a man of two worlds. I don't think this is that movie. We need more stories like Superman: For All Seasons, or maybe even Superman: Birthright. This was clearly meant to piggyback off the hype of Man of Steel, but it just doesn't seem like it was very well though out. <br /><br />Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-53131882236611708482013-05-16T01:11:49.154-05:002013-05-16T01:11:49.154-05:00Can't say I agree with you on this one HHH. I ...Can't say I agree with you on this one HHH. I too have been an avid follower of the DC Universe Animated Original Movies (winner of the longest unnecessary name award) and have enjoyed seeing the high points in the series get progressively higher, but I don’t see Unbound in such harsh light as it appears you do. I wont go into every aspect that we differ on, but I think my initial expectations were a lot lower than yours. While I agree that DKR was the best piece so far, my opinion of the rest has been very varied, with my overall opinion of the DCUAOM series being "Ok". The frustrating thing with these movies is generally the length. 77 mins just doesn’t seem to cut it when they try to get an epic superhero story on screen while also infusing it with mature characters and emotions. Consistently something has had to give, to the overall products detriment. This is where TDKR is the standout. Being in 2 parts it was allowed to take its time in establishing everything that is necessary for the story to resonate on every level, of which is did an exceptional job. But TDKR is the exception, not the rule, and I think it is a tad unfair to measure all the other entries in the series by that high bar.<br /><br />In regards to Superman: Unbound, I think it did a very good job of establishing the character of Superman and his dynamics between Lois and Supergirl in a mature way that was actually above average for these movies. The first Superman/Lois interaction followed by the Clark/Lois interaction was superb. The action was action. It’s a superhero animated movie, it is what it is. I'm not a huge action guy. I'm much more interested in why the action is happening than what is currently being punched. But that is a big draw for the genre, so for me its about how do they make the action "Fun", and I think Unbound did an alright job at that. Superman seems to be a difficult character to get right, and I think the Brainiac/Unbound approach of focusing on the things in his life that are out of his control (relationships, Kandor etc) is a really good way of making the character relatable.<br /><br />It may seem like I'm grading this movie on a curve….and I am. In the past, for the first half of the DCUAOM series I would be very excited and have high expectation, just to be constantly let down. Now I feel I have realistic expectations. That they are 77min cartoons of characters that I enjoy spending time with, in stories that were (for the most part) originally written for a different medium and with a scope larger than the run time allows. With that mindset, I've had a great time, and as time goes on these are the movie I'm finding myself turn to when I just want to have something on that I can turn off with and have some fun. I know this sounds like a cop out, but it is what it is. In the end though, I fail to see how Superman: Unbound is the worst of all the DCUAOM. For me its in the top half.<br /><br />And for anyone interested for my opinion (i.e. my mum), <br />Best DCUAOM: The Dark Knight Returns (1&2) <br />Batman: Under the Red Hood <br />Wonder Woman<br /><br />Worst DCUAOM <br />Superman/Batman: Public Enemies Superman/Batman: Apokolypse <br />Green Lantern: Emerald KnightsBrad Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426952757794850746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-67418621527169874882013-05-15T22:00:02.257-05:002013-05-15T22:00:02.257-05:00I liked Superman Unbound a scooch more than you di...I liked Superman Unbound a scooch more than you did. It’s true that the story is light and it often comes across as yet another “all they do is fight” cartoon, but I still thought there was a lot of fun to be had. <br /><br />The interaction between Superman and Supergirl was the most interesting part, character-wise. Having Kara around gave some added complications for Supes that we don’t usually see. We’re used to him fretting over Lois, but dealing with Supergirl when she’s still in her “alien walking among us” phase made for a different type of emotional challenge for ol’ Red Boots. At least that’s what I thought. <br /><br />Even though I’m this big cartoon guy, I still have never seen any Dragon Ball Z. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-73275642962727811382013-05-15T17:08:51.703-05:002013-05-15T17:08:51.703-05:00And once more...the World's Finest three parte...And once more...the World's Finest three parter is being sold as "The Batman Superman Movie." I just checked on Amazon. Though I have those episodes on the Superman: The Animated Series Volume 2 DVD set, I just bought the movie so I'd have them both.Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-46199696835231132682013-05-15T16:43:57.663-05:002013-05-15T16:43:57.663-05:00I just re-read what I wrote above and I think I wa...I just re-read what I wrote above and I think I was so excited that I left out some punctuation. You should definitely check out the World's Finest three parter or packaged movie, and the Superman series is worth your time, but I don't think it's as good as Batman. But the Batman show sort of flowed into the Superman show toward the end of its run. And then they both picked right back up in Justice League, which was pretty great. Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-60006916834146279032013-05-15T16:37:01.033-05:002013-05-15T16:37:01.033-05:00P. Bromz: It makes me incredibly happy that you...P. Bromz: It makes me incredibly happy that you're not just watching Batman: TAS, but that you're also watching it with Charlie and passing that torch on to the next generation. Have you guys watched the Mr. Freeze episode "Heart of Ice" yet? I'm not sure the show was ever finer than that episode. <br /><br />As for Superman: TAS, it's good, but no, I don't think it's nearly as good as the Batman show. I don't think that's through any fault of the production, but in the material itself. Batman is an emotionally haunted character that's an endless source of drama. He's a detective, he works from the shadows, and his world is visually stimulating and interesting. He has the finest rogues gallery in all of comics. Superman, on the other hand, is bright and optimistic, and his rogues gallery is kind of weak. There's some good stuff to explore there, and the show DOES do that, but it never quite struck me the way the Batman show did. <br /><br />Although I do have to admit that I never watched all of the episodes. I've seen a lot of them, but I never bought or watched them all. I CAN recommend a three parter called World's Finest which connected Batman TAS to Superman TAS and had the two meet for the first time. They did some really good stuff in that one. It's actually available as a standalone movie. That might be a good place for Sol to start, too. I do think it's worth your time to watch it after you and Charlie go through Batman. It's way different, and Superman has never clicked with me like Batman does, but it's far from bad. It's still way better than most of what passes for children's television these days. <br /><br />There was also a really great Justice League episode based on an Alan Moore story called "For The Man Who Has Everything" which is on a lot of people's "best Superman stories list."Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-65025137158336454562013-05-15T16:25:36.879-05:002013-05-15T16:25:36.879-05:00Sol Brony: There are no Superman movies as good as...Sol Brony: There are no Superman movies as good as Dark Knight Returns (in my opinion!). Superman seems very hard to do a crazy good job on because he's so powerful and can do so much. in my opinion, the best Superman stuff all seems to happen in other movies. If you haven't seen (or read) Justice League: The New Frontier, I'd recommend that as a starting point. It's SO GOOD. It basically puts these characters in the context of the birth of the Silver Age of comics, the early 60s, and ties them into the things that were going on at the time. The title itself is taken from a JFK quote. It's pretty awesome, but it's not solo Superman. Still, I love that movie. <br /><br />And then a few years ago there was an animated Superman movie based on Grant Morrison's run of All Star Superman. Grant Morrison makes my head hurt, but he challenges me in ways that I like. but that's not what you're looking for either. <br /><br /><br />In many ways, I'm still waiting for that really great solo Superman animated movie. His best stuff seems to be as a supporting character. Of course, I fully expect Zack Snyder to change all of that with <em>Man of Steel.</em> It's time someone pushes Superman into some new cinematic territory, and I think Snyder's gonna do just that. Heath Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802874033845631338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-39227540953985073672013-05-15T15:39:22.790-05:002013-05-15T15:39:22.790-05:00I really need to have a kid. "I've been w...I really need to have a kid. "I've been watching <i>Batman: The Animated Series</i>" sounds so much better when you add "with my son" as opposed to "in my Cheeto-stained underwear".Sol O.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-69699722897991150342013-05-15T15:08:37.512-05:002013-05-15T15:08:37.512-05:00I agree Patrick, Batman: The Animated Series is fa...I agree Patrick, Batman: The Animated Series is fantastic. I love the look and feel of the series. Especially the little things that they did like the title cards for each episode. It's just my opinion but the animated series is my favorite portrayal of Batman. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10475027751253870681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-25000483500348234442013-05-15T14:49:25.537-05:002013-05-15T14:49:25.537-05:00I'll piggyback off of Sol (because he's in...I'll piggyback off of Sol (because he's into it) and ask is the animated series is as good as everyone says? I've been watching <i>Batman: The Animated Series</i> with my son and have come to the conclusion (that a lot of other people came to before me) that it's the best version of Batman ever produced outside of the comics.Patrick Bromleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00771837625286775607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-84898466398000357672013-05-15T14:42:43.309-05:002013-05-15T14:42:43.309-05:00Hmmm, I generally only masturbate to My Little Pon...Hmmm, I generally only masturbate to My Little Pony cartoons but I might make an exception for that Lois.<br /><br />I haven't seen it, but bummed that this wasn't any good, Heath. After seeing how great an animated comic book movie can be with <i>The Dark Knight Returns</i> I was thinking it could be an ideal medium for a good Superman story (live action Supes seems tough to pull off though I have HIGH hopes for <i>Man of Steel</i>). Looks like I can safely ignore this one (except damn, the special features do sound pretty good), though I'd be interested to hear how the actual book turns out if you end up picking it up.<br /><br />So my question for you would be, is there a good Superman animated movie out there or what?Sol O.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4217427319662074458.post-72853165358573571662013-05-15T12:45:37.372-05:002013-05-15T12:45:37.372-05:00Right there with you, Heath. Bored by the fight s...Right there with you, Heath. Bored by the fight scenes, perked up every time Lois was on screen (really, there's some great Lois stuff in the opening sequence, including a moment where she casually braces herself just before Superman flips a helicopter), enjoyed the Daily Planet scenes a lot...but lord, I wasn't that interested in the Braniac scenes.<br /><br />Also, I never made the connection between Denethor and Fringe. Huh.Joseph Finnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17168159790992899470noreply@blogger.com