Yes, Silent Night, Bloody Night was one of my favorite surprises of SMM. I did not see it in HD though and saw a rough copy which to me added to the overall vibe. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.Christmas Evil is so great and you're dead on - that ending! New Years Evil came out the same year and I like that one too but in a different way. It's got a great trailer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVVqN-CMnrsThe "Unforgettable" opening fight is one of my top ten uses of a song in film. I thought it was brilliant. I can't think of something that classy used over violence in that way. All in all though, I simply like Watchmen There are some parts of the film that I wish were shorter and moved along and I also do not like the last 30 minutes but I have no frame of reference to the comic. I thought it was anti-climatic and I never really thought about it this way but you mention "the problem was not that effectively established" and that's exactly what I thought. Also, I wanted to see that crazy blue tiger do something! I know that's action-shallow minded, but oh well. That being said, I think I'll watch the Ultimate Cut at some point. I like Sucker Punch a thousand times better and yes, that movie is much, much smarter than people think. (Sucker Punch in 5.1 is one of the best home theater experiences, btw).
Kudos to Patrick for sitting through the 215 minute cut, he's a braver man than I. I like Watchmen, but I've always felt like it works better as a series of vignettes than a cohesive film. A lot of that has to do with the loose narritive and the amount of flashbacks, but whenever I watch it, I just don't care about Veidt's plan. However, the "Manhattan is born" sequence is excellent in every way.
None of the problems with Watchmen the movie are the movie's fault. It's excellently cast, the production design is outstanding, and the cinematography is gorgeous. Seeing it in the theater, I was aware of how acclaimed the comic was, but had no idea what the actual story was; when I found out, my reaction was "That's it?" Watchmen the movie really is exactly what it should be, but whether or not it was worth making in the first place is debatable (especially post-9/11, which, to some degree, was the real-life equivalent to the ending of Watchmen.)
If there is one thing I've learned from this episode, it's that Bob Dylan makes everything better.
That's what's really important.
Thank you for doing a podcast on The Watchmen, Heath and Patrick! I was dumbfounded by how I actually LOVED Watchmen when it came out (I even went to buy the DVD). I'm sure it must have been on a date because I would never consciously choose to see this kind of action hero movie myself. Here's what I liked and questions I have about it:-The intro was like The Incredibles, where it set up the heroes as already fallen. I like that because it kind of signals to me that it will be more than just a super-power story; it's chronologically surpassed that and will be more character-study.-There were some scenes I thought were especially badass and visually arresting. "The Kiss", the Comedian's death-fight, and the sex scene in the night sky. -Strong female characters. I remember being shocked to learn the truth about Silk Spectre and the Comedian- which was not what he did to her, but how she handled it after - that's a very unpretty, maybe un-heroic, very relatable thing.-Dr. Manhattan's story of becoming so advanced that he lost touch with what mattered was totally fascinating and sad. -I like what Heath said that each hero had their point of view but was never really said to be right or wrong. I thought that was good, like it helped avoid cliches.-Do you ever think that this story's underlying appeal is because it's about a club? And a great club losing it's members is just in itself kind of nostalgic sadness? I wonder because I'm not attracted to hero movies but I am to stories about clubs.
Also I have to say I totally admire you Patrick for having such a composed answer to Heath's question about Tarantino, your favorite (and I admire your honesty, Heath). That composure is something I really want to have but I'm not there yet. If someone questions my favorites I pretty much start out something like: I don't understand these questions. She's obviously the best because reasons A, B and C....and 1+1=2....and 2+2=4...
For what it's worth, I really wish I hadn't brought up my internal conflict over Tarantino. I think maybe it came off like a challenge, and that's not at all what I intended. I also don't think I conveyed my thoughts in a very tactful way. What I should have said was "as I delve into more and more of Tarantino's influences, I'm sometimes surprised and disappointed that things I thought were his are taken from other movies." To be clear, I LOVE Tarantino and consider him a hero for the attention he's brought to a ton of movies I love ('70s exploitation, kung fu, forgotten westerns, war films, etc). Also, I think Pulp Fiction is an example of the elusive perfect film. But I agree with you, Patrick was a total class act when dealing with my lack of finesse.
So sorry Heath, I totally didn't mean to imply anything like that about your question. I thought it was a good bit of conversation.
You didn't imply anything! I just wanted to use this as an opportunity to revisit my Tarantino comments. I've been thinking about your "club" idea, and I just don't know. What I enjoy most about Watchmen is the really deep characterization and the fact that they're are all drawn completely in shades of gray. That's what makes this movie work for me when there are others like it that don't; I really care about each of these people. I haven't thought much about the aspect of the Watchmen being a club, but maybe it's something that I'm not picking up on consciously. There might be something to this. Even before the loss of one of their own, they had a sense of belonging. Then, time moved on. I think that's intriguing.
I'm still interested in this but have so little knowledge of this genre. Can you tell me a movie you think is very similar, but maybe not as successful, like you mentioned? I have 10 hours to kill on a plane next week. I'll watch it.
The most obvious one I can think of is Synder's Man of Steel, though I'm not sure how it plays into your "club" theory, unless you consider that Superman is the ultimate outsider, which is a take on the character that I'm particularly interested in. Watchmen takes characters that seem heroic and breaks them down; the goal was to show how flawed and human the gods could be. Man of Steel does some similar things with very different results (at least for me). And as we discussed in the podcast, it appears that Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice seems to be deconstructing things even further. I'm reserving final judgement until I've seen the movie, but my instincts tell me to run the other way. I'd even posit that I find Pixar's The Incredibles to be a mess, but I think just about everyone else would disagree. Deconstructing superheroes is done a lot these days, but rarely with the staggering results of Watchmen. The reason I think Watchmen succeeds is because these characters exist first and foremost to be reduced and examined. Remember on the podcast when I talked about how DC Comics told the writer of the comic, Alan Moore, that if he had used existing heroes, they'd be unusable moving forward? I don't think you can break your characters like this movie does and put them back together again when you're done.
Yes! Thank you, Heath. The feeling that stands out for me from Watchmen is their disappointment in one another, like their responsibility was largely to each other. I think that strong interpersonal relationship structure and focus of the film helps each member's gray area to bring out more gray area in the others, and make more sense. And I think one reason I care about them so much is because they're really shown to care and be impacted by each other so much. It gives me this feeling that none them are disposable. I haven't really seen that so strongly in other hero movies. Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think the club/group structure is a major part of its impact for me.
On Tuesday of this week, I bought a copy of the director's cut of Watchmen, put it on to see how it differed from the theatrical cut, and checked this site to see what your review had to say about it. There wasn't one. When I woke up on Wednesday, there was a PODCAST about it. I NOW FEEL LIKE I'M CONTROLLING THE UNIVERSE...The one change from the book that has always bothered me (and you guys touched on it) is the scene where Rorschach kills the guy with the cleaver, because it feels like the wrong tone to me. It's too blunt and simple. In the comic, Rorschach handcuffs the guy to the radiator, gives him a hacksaw, and then lights the house on fire. He says "Wouldn't bother trying to saw through handcuffs. Never make it in time," and leaves. I vaguely remember seeing somewhere they changed it because they didn't want people to think they were ripping off the Saw franchise (even though Watchmen was written first). Do you happen to know if that's the case? And, if what you're saying about Snyder commenting on other movies is true (the use of Wagner during the Vietnam sequence, etc.), why didn't they just leave it in and make the comment on horror movies? Thoughts?
I agree with almost everything you guys said, even if I may not like the movie as much as you did. My experience might have been hampered because I read the comic right before the movie came out, so I had alot on my mind to criticize. I also thought, after reading it, that it was unfilmable. But you guys summed up my thoughts exactly when you said that it was the best job anyone could have done filming that story. I guess my biggest problem was that I thought the movie was almost incoherent in its structure and didn't really spend enough time conveying the ideas of the comic, but I've talked to several people who never read the comic and thought the movie was totally understandable and great, so I guess I'm just biased.
Also, feel free to go on tangents about Batman comics anytime you want. I, for one, welcome it.
Setting that intro fight to Nat King Cole was a really inspired choice.
ME GUSTO MUCHO La pelicula quiero volverla a ver. Watchmen really does work as a film, by staying loyal to the book while still jettisoning the least cinematic elements. Snyder has flaws as a director - big, serious, massive, obvious flaws - but he's working with a goldmine of material here.consulta online medico online pediatra online medico online doctor online dermatologo online veterinario online veterinario online doctor online consulta online abogado online abogado online abogado online abogado online abogado online psicologo online doctor online psicologo online abogado online abogado online Thanks