Monday, May 6, 2013
F This Movie! - Iron Man 3
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Also discussed this episode: Men in Black 3 (2012); This is 40 (2012); Upstream Color (2013); Gommorah (2009); The Guardian (1990); Bad Boys (1995); The Island (2005)
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Great podcast as always! In Iron Man 1 Yensin mention how he met Tony at the conference and how wasted he was. Tony said he didn't remember him. Yensin's scene in IM3 was a callback to IM1.ReplyDelete
Thanks! Forgot about that. That's what I get for not rewatching the first movie before recording. That clears it up, and now the beat works just fine.Delete
I agree with most of what you guys said... almost to the point where it was a bit of a boring podcast to listen to. I'm with Doug in preferring Ironman 2 to 3. I think the villains work better in 2 and that makes all the difference for me.ReplyDelete
I'm so SORRY that we BORED you SO MUCH.Delete
I'm super guilty of using words like "best" and "most" when talking about this movie. There's no use ranking the Marvel movies right now, especially since I've only seen most of them once and a long time ago. It's interesting to consider that up until Captain America, I had all but given up on Phase One. That and Avengers rejuvenated my excitement, and now I'm looking forward to comic book movies again which is kind of crazy.ReplyDelete
I acknowledge the confusion and contrivance in Iron Man Three (Sorry, for some reason I can't write "3"), but it sucked me in right away and kept surprising me, not only with the way it's constructed, but the creativity in the action set-pieces. The idea of the Mark 42 suit gave Black flexibility in the ways Stark uses and is limited by his tech. It wasn't all man or all suit all the time. A neat way to sidestep the difficulty of humanizing a hero who is buried under armor.
I enjoyed the way the movie ignored and subverted established comic book canon. I want to see the same lack of slavish recreation in James Gunn and Edgar Wright's entries. I'm all for giving established franchises and characters to great directors and letting them go wild. Black could have gone wilder, I'm sure, but it worked for me.
I wrote in my infamous (in my head, anyway) John Carter review that watching movies is like going to a magic show. You're either so drawn in by the tricks that you ignore the deception, or you see the hidden pocket and the illusion is broken. I saw a few hidden pockets in this movie, but they didn't break the spell.
I don't actually think Iron Man 2 is bad, and it drives me nuts that people say it's terrible. Iron Man 2 is a really good movie, I just didn't feel like I liked it as much as the first one. I'm still feeling like Iron Man 3 is the best in the series, but having watched the first one last night I still say the first and third are such different movies that they don't compare well.ReplyDelete
If anything, I think the Iron Man trilogy is an oddity in that all three movies are solid and none of them make me feel let down when I watch them.
When it comes to the big suit spoiler I was a little annoyed though. He spends so much time trying to get Mark 42 to work again and then 41 other suits show up at the end. I was sitting there saying "You mean to say you could have called another suit up at any time?" And Tony Stark was all "No! Not at any time, only when it was funny!"
Beyond that one thing though, I thought the movie worked.
I think that (SPOILERS) the implication is that the other suits were buried in the rubble of his house. It was only when the crew of workers finally got to the wreckage of his workshop that he was able to call them remotely. Or I could be misunderstanding the whole thing.Delete
That was suggested to me, or that he was invested in people thinking he was dead, or he knew he'd need all of them and reveling one would have shown his hand. It's not a big thing, and it doesn't hurt the movie, but it struck me at the time.Delete
Doug, add me to the list of people who are jealous of you because you saw Upstream Color.ReplyDelete
I liked Iron Man 3, and I think I liked it more because it felt like a throwback to the old Shane Black movies of the 80's and 90's, it just happened to be Iron Man. I think the film itself had its heart in the right place, I agree the end had a lot of missed opportunities and the whole voice over thing seemed like they were just trying everything up just in case RDJ doesn't come back. I think He'll do Avengers 2 and not come back for Iron Man 4.ReplyDelete
Now Patrick I sent you an email, months ago, about comparing the ISLAND against Parts: The Clonus Horror. You obviously did not do this, and so now I beg you to! If you have no idea why I am saying this look Parts: The Clonus Horror up on Wikipedia it will all be explained. And if you rewatch the Island, watch it with Bay’s commentary. He makes no mention of settling a copyright lawsuit with the creators of Parts, and even takes credit for some plot points I think were in both the movies too. I’m curious what you’ll say about Michael Bay after this.
While I dont completely stand behind this assessment, I was thinking about the reason for Rebecca Hall's character that was discussed on the podcast. I think she was there as a counter to the whole "Tony as Father" idea that was present with the kid. Tony could have taken her under his wing in the first five minutes of the movie and prevented all of extremis from happening. But as he was "old Tony" he doesnt feel any sense of responsibility on his shoulders so he just F's her which then results in the F'ing those he cares for most (Pepper and Happy).ReplyDelete
Its a litte bit of a stretch (claiming that it reverberates through everything like that....but it kinda does) and to be a really strong theme/idea I think it needed greater consequences, i.e. Happy to have died.
Her coming back into the movie really just shows what she did (take her idea to Guy) and to show again that she hasnt turned bad, she was more neutral with Tony and Guy being the good and bad users of her.
Whether its all worth it, who knows, but thats my thought.
And Doug, while I think Iron Man 2 is the worst of the 3 I dont think its "the worst".ReplyDelete
I think its a movie that is great on paper, but doesnt come together as well as it could have. I dont really know where to point the finger specifically. I dont mind any of the characters (including Rourke) and I dont really mind the Avengers-prologue aspects (mainly due to Fury, and by extension Black Widow, serving an important role in the narrative of this film, and not just the "setting up the Avengers" criticism that is often laid against it), and while its very uninspired I dont even mind the big robot fight of a climax. But as a whole its flaws (that seem to be slightly scattered throughout it all) just bring it down a few too many pegs.
Nick Fury, special power: Exposition.
"When you absolutely, positivity have to tell something to every mother F'er in the roooom. Accept no substitutes"
I haven't listened to the whole podcast yet (seeing Iron Man 3 tonight) but I wanted to make one quick comment, when Patrick was questioning Doug about what movies he has seen and Doug said name a movie I swear on a million bibles, beloved childhood pets, and the awesome comedy of late 70's through mid 80's Steve Martin I said Weekend at Bernie's II right before Patrick said it. This means only one thing, Patrick and I are long lost twins with a telepathic connection, kinda like the twins from the Shining but not as good looking.ReplyDelete
I'll be up in Chicago in a couple weeks Patrick, and I am sure when we meet up it won't be creepy and awkward:)
Because that's the only answer.Delete
Oh, one more thing (sorry for the multiple posts).ReplyDelete
Doug. I think this relates to what you were referring to, re: the many early reviews. Iron Man 3 came out in Australia over a week before the US due to a public holiday over here. So maybe the reviews were more from an international base. Maybe.
Sorry to show up late to the party. Or do I just know how to make an entrance? Yeah, okay, I'm just late. First I want to express that I think you two gentlemen did a very fine job summing up the pros and cons of this movie. It has many of both. One of the things that drew me to F This Movie in the first place was that the podcast usually walks the fine, middle path between cynicism and over-enthusiasm. I think most of us that interact here all fit that bill, too. It takes a deeper look at movies without being pretentious and overtly negative, and this episode was the perfect example of that.ReplyDelete
I liked this movie quite a bit. I watched the first Iron Man the night before, and I do think part three tops that, but not for any logical reasons I can point to. For me, it's purely on taste. The movie has a very "80s" vibe to me. It harkens back to the cop movies of the late 80s and early 90s and more than once I got not just a Lethal Weapon vibe, but also a Tango and Cash vibe. I really dug the scene with Stark and Rhodes at the end where they go in with no armor, just pistols, and take cover behind a big box. The entire location for that scene felt so retro. It was the movie equivalent of shooting a music video in a warehouse with a wind machine. I liked what Shane Black brought to this mega-franchise, and he made many quirky choices that I'm happy with.
Having said that, I do not think the Extremis bad guys or anything at all related to Extremis works. It may work in a comic, but I didn't think it fit in this movie. Nor did I think Guy Pearce fit, either. There was an awful lot of loose, flim flam explanations for things, and the movie deserved better. The thing with Paltrow at the end? That doesn't belong in this movie. And the final ending, right before the credits? Say what now?
But this movie was like a ride, and it took me on a fun trip for over 2 hours. I'm still at the place where seeing these characters live and breathe feels so fantastic to me that I don't mind when the whole thing doesn't work. I actually think this is a stronger movie than Avengers. Or maybe they're close in similarity, because they both (in my opinion) overcome their multiple flaws on sheer excitement and gee-whiz coolness. I try to go into these things without expectations, but it was a lot better than I had any expectation for it to be. I love Black's take on the character. I wish a little more time and effort had been spent on some of the plot details, but that's asking a lot, considering the turn around of these projects. As it is, sequels generally get worse and deteriorate as they go. I don't think that happened here. There was a lot riding on this movie, so this gives me hope for the future of ALL of the franchises under Disney's umbrella.
From your mouth to the ears of Disney's Accounting Department because, if this article is even halfway true (and we all know the Bruce Banner revolving door casting for "Hulk" movies), Marvel's budget-oriented treatment of the stars might put the whole thing on the slow track.Delete
But what about THE ISLAND Vs. PARTS: The Clonus Horror? I want a discussion about this.ReplyDelete
I haven't seen Parts. I'm aware of the controversy, but have never seen it. I'm sure the screenplay is a rip-off, but I have a hard time believing that Michael Bay actually stole shots and reproduced them, because the visuals of a movie are the only thing he's really concerned with. And now it sounds like I'm defending Michael Bay, so I need to go take my final nap.Delete
I would never argue that The Island is an original movie. It is not, even without Parts. It's Logan's Run with a different twist. My point on the podcast was just that it's maybe the only one of Bay's movies where he seems to be trying something different. But the movie didn't make money, so he's back to making hateful garbage. Good job, ticket buyers.
Okay, we get it. You don't like Dark Knight Rises. Can you do one podcast without reminding us you didn't like Dark Knight Rises? It wasn't a perfect movie,but it's not freaking Batman and Robin. Wanna go back to those days? Maybe this episode could have been shaved about fifteen minutes or so since you guys were in agreement with your takes on Iron Man 3. Usually like the show, but this one was somewhat of a bore to get through. I know you were trying to be snarky, but Bruce didn't give up being batman at all in Rises. Hope you remind us again Rises sucks when you do your Gatsby episode.ReplyDelete
1. Point taken on the episode being long. It was.Delete
2. Bruce Wayne quits being Batman not once but twice in The Dark Knight Rises.
3. Why does it bother you so much if I don't like a movie as much as you? It doesn't bother me that you like it.
Because you know what I hate about things I like? When there's too damn much of it. It's bad enough you make a podcast I have to enjoy listening to EVERY WEEK, the least you could do is keep it under an hour so I'm not TOO entertained, you know? Maybe cut out some of the parts where you talk about movies? I tend to zone out for those parts.Delete
Welcome, Anonymous, it's refreshing to have someone join the discussion who is intolerant of other people's personal tastes, because frankly the openness to people liking what they like around here is a little gay.
That's our new tagline! F This Movie!: A Little Gay.Delete
DKR is crap and it hurts because it shouldnt. It's bloated, dumb and has too much nonsense you can't decipher. What's with the weird timeline? How long does it take to heal from a broken back? Some ugly turk punching it won't do much healing, me thinks. Why was Bats thrown in the pit in Europe? Was it Europe? The Balkans, where? Why did only he crawl out and not the onthers watching and cheering him on? Why did Bane keep the cops down there for so long? Why didn;t the military get involved once it was a nuclear weapon? My head hurts!ReplyDelete
On your points.ReplyDelete
1. Hey, it wasn't as long as Shoah, right?
2. Bruce quits once at the end. I don't think his time in the pit counts as quitting.
3. Yes, it bothers me so much that one person doesn't like what I like. If you have something against Man Capris, Verizon, Dark Knight Rises & Mexican Seafood, you are not Real America. I can accept criticism (I have a mom & a girlfriend), but when i go to SlashKinoDigest & see another article titled "Here's Another 500 Reasons Why a Movie About a Man Dressed as a Bat is Illogical, Vol 3" I just want to say enough. You're not that bad about it, but when so many others treat Rises like a kissing cousin to Batman & Robin & give soulless, racist offerings such as Revenge of the Fallen a pass, it's odd.(Yes, I heard your Pain & Gain episode; so you're the exception when it comes to Bay.) So next time you wish to throw a barb, you best check w/ Anonymous for approval. I'll send you my pre-approved list of what does & doesn't bother me. Consider this a freebie.
I genuinely don't want to argue, because I'd much rather we just talk about things that are productive. So I'll just say this:Delete
When TDKR opens, Bruce has quit being Batman. So that's twice. I'm just being petty, but also correct.
I understand your frustration with what sounds like a lot of other sites that ARE NOT THIS ONE. We DO NOT DO, nor have every done, the things you are complaining about. If I mentioned TDKR on this episode, it's only because it might have been appropriate, seeing as we were talking about the third installment in a successful comic book franchise. I wasn't bashing the movie, and do not go out of my way to do so. I do not hold a grudge against that movie, nor am I trying to curry favor with contrarians by expressing issues with it. That's all. The world is a rainbow.
We appreciate you posting and offering input (really), but take the time to register and post under a name. It's too easy to hide behind Anonymous.
I'm sure Patrick is perfectly capable of fighting his own battles, so I apologize for getting in the middle of this, but your #3 really bothers ME. They're called opinions, man. Everybody has them, and they don't always align with your own. I'm not sure how serious you were, but I hope you don't really mean that Patrick has to run a list by you as to ensure that he doesn't spout negative opinions on what you like. Please try to practice a little tolerance of what people such as Patrick like and dislike. I bet he'll be more than happy to do the same for you. That's the mentality we like to try to keep around hereDelete
Also, though I don't know Patrick's take, The Dark Knight Rises is nowhere near as bad as Batman and Robin (in my opinion), but it's still not good. They're both problematic on two completely different levels, I would say.
Yes, you can say he gave up the cowl (but in between Dark Knight & Rises, not the beginning of Rises). But I would say he was still Batman in spirit: obsessive, stuck in the past. He's barely on screen for five minutes and already has the itch after tangling with Kyle. Alfred's entire argument was Bruce never gave up being Batman. Okay, it didn't work for you. I'm not trying to change your mind.Just wanted to offer my take on that point. Really wasn't trying to start an argument. Sarcasm doesn't translate very well in a comments section. No, I won't be giving my name because I won't listen to this podcast anymore. I learned you really shouldn't offer criticism on podcasts based towards criticism. Lesson learned. Sorry to disturb the hive. Comment analyzed and approved by Vinny Bruzzese & Worldwide Motion Picture Group.ReplyDelete
Chiming in late, but I hope you don't actually leave. We welcome new voices/comments/criticism. I actually enjoyed reading your back-and-forth with Patrick, which is the whole point of these film discussion websites, no?
Ah c'mon buddy, there's no hive here. I enjoyed your sarcasm actually, but there was just something about your first comment that came off disrespectful - differing opinions are certainly welcome here, we just try to be nice about it. Kind of like Canada.Delete
For the record, I like The Dark Knight Rises a lot - more than Patrick for sure - but you gotta admit, Bruce Wayne builds himself back up to being Batman twice in this movie which seems unnecessarily repetitive. I do get what you're saying about him not "quitting" being Batman in his mind, though. Perhaps an inaccurate choice of words on Patrick's part but I do understand what he's getting at and it's a valid criticism.
Anyway, stick around man, it's worth it.
Changing the subject, only fault I could find with the movie was that they wanted to pass off Vizcaya Museum as the Miami hideout. Which sounds like a small thing but there ARE other mansions in the area...ReplyDelete
Hooooly crap, major props for the Battle Beasts reference! Never thought I'd hear that on this show.ReplyDelete
That's how we roll.Delete