Monday, August 8, 2016

F This Movie! - Suicide Squad

Patrick and Adam Riske want to kill themselves.



Download this episode here. (57.4 MB)

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Also discussed this episode: Cafe Society (2016), Phantasm (1979), Young Dillinger (1965), Jurassic Park (1993)

54 comments:

  1. "Skeet and Greet" is one of the greatest things I've ever heard in my life.

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  2. Buckles in - This should be a fun ride!

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  3. It can't be easy being WB. They had some of the biggest movie franchises of the past decade and a half with Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and the Nolan Batman movies and then one by one those wrapped up. Now they've had to turn the Hobbit into three fairly bad movies, they're doing their soulless attempt to copy the success of the MCU, and they've got their Harry Potter spin-off movies as well (and we'll see how that turns out soon enough).

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    1. I have an uneasy feeling that the HP spinoff won't do that well either. Eddie Redmayne and Colin Farrell aren't exactly draws compared to little kids in school learning to be wizards. I hope it's good though.

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  4. I loved the convention stories. Sounds like you guys had a blast! I'm jealous. Unfortunately, the first Horror convention I attended last year wasn't nearly as well produced or as fun as what you guys described, but, hey, I got to hang with Tom Atkins so I can't complain.

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    1. Haven't listened to the whole podcast, but the convention stories are great! I've never been to a convention. I'd pay hundreds to hang with Tom "six pack on the phone" Atkins however.

      And fuck the asshole taking a video of his own fucking question. I'm pretty introverted, so it wouldn't be me, but someone should have punched that dude in the back of the head.

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    2. I met Tom Atkins at a convention. He was really funny. I asked him (outside of his "classics") which movie of his I should watch next and he answered: "I don't know. They're all f***in' good."

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    3. Of course, cause he's Tom Atkins! awesome. He was great when I met him. Took time to talk to me and then I ran into him in the lobby later on and he came up to me, remembered my name and proceeded to converse again. Great guy.

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  5. Adam Riske is such a good story teller! Great episode as always guys :)

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  6. Great podcast guys - there were no surprises - I watched the movie last night and your reactions were as expected (and the same as mine) but it was a fun listen and you did a great job not being dicks about not liking it.

    Aside from the general movie problems I think I responded so poorly because I never really bought the premise as they chose to present it in this movie. In the context of being sent into a situation with a HUGE GROUP OF SOLDIERS, other than Fire Guy (eventually), what did anyone really bring to the table that couldn't have just been handled by MORE soldiers? What did Harley Quinn and Captain Boomerang bring AT ALL? Better than average killers? I would think most US Special Forces soldiers fit that bill. Once "This is a job for the Suicide Squad" didn't hold up to even comic-book logic I was lost. Super powerful god-like being out to destroy the entire world is a job for REAL superheroes isn't it? They should have been given something a little smaller - something they were only doing because who cares if they die.

    And did I miss something or did Waller execute a room full of good guys just doing their jobs because of something about security clearance? Because the movie certainly didn't earn that moment being funny.

    Annoying Autobiographical Pause - a local charity does a Celebrity Scrabble even (not to be a dick but the "Celebrity" deserves some heavy quotes) that I've taken part in a few times and a few years ago my table's celebrity was Matt Baram - he plays the scientist/technician/? who the Joker kidnaps for some reason I can't really remember - nice, funny guy - seeing him was probably the moment that made me happiest!

    Anyway, disappointed for all of us that we had to end the season on a bit of a bummer - I just finally got to the podcast yesterday and it's buried now so I'll comment here that I thought Star Trek Beyond was a lot of fun too - listening to you guys talk about it actually made me like it even more than I did when I was watching it - might see it again just to rinse the taste of this out of my mouth!

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    1. That scene with Waller executing her team was weird. Especially since Flagg is like whatever to it and Deadshot seems impressed by it (once again proving he's a piece of shit even though he wants to prove to his daughter he is not a piece of shit).

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    2. And this dumb scene with Deadshot (paraphrasing):

      Harley: Have you ever been in love?

      Deadshot: You can't do the terrible shit I do and still sleep at night if you feel love. ALSO I LOVE MY DAUGHTER SO MUCH AND EVERYTHING I'M DOING IS FOR HER.

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    3. Not to mention Deadshot wears a shirt that says "I am the light, the way" on his collar. Because he's SUCH a sociopath.

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    4. Oh man, I didn't even notice that.

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  7. To quote Wishmaster I can see Riske giving the famous Andrew Divoff Lipless smile while watching Suicide Squad
    I haven't had the heart yet to go see it, I have been looking forward to this for ages and this weekend passed me by in kind of a numb wash, its the parental feeling, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed!

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  8. I think James Franco played a better Joker in Spring Breakers.

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  9. Spot on review. Suicide Squad is as obnoxious as it is lame. That being said, I think it's worth mentioning the MPAA rating for this film. I've never bitched about this in the past (because I've never really cared), but this was the most violent PG-13 movie I've ever seen. Multiple people are killed by machine guns, Batman punches a woman, and the movie makes a joke revolving around dead children. Anyways, I realize this is one of many problems plaguing the film, but the MPAA needs to get its shit together.

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    1. The PG-13 rating was clearly bought and paid for. It's so ridiculous.

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    2. I completely disagree. This may be the single most PG-13 film ever made. Most of the violence is against rock monsters, and the violence against humans is either completely bloodless or obscured and offscreen. There's no real sex and no nudity and the characters go out of their way to avoid the dreaded f-word, even though realistically they would probably be saying it all the time in this situation. This is a movie that's absolutely screaming for a Hard-R rating and the version we got just feels watered down and half-assed. Honestly if this came out in the seventies or early eighties it probably would have gotten a pg. At least then we might have gotten some blood, a handful of f-bombs, and the odd nipple or two.

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  10. I feel I'm starting to grade movies on a curve. I love being at the movies and I want so badly to have fun at the movies that this summer I think I'm starting to give movies a pass more easily. I found this movie stupid, messy, trashy fun and I agree with pretty much everything you guys said. And yet... I enjoyed myself. Shouldn't I ask for more in order to like a movie? Maybe there's a place for movies like this, or maybe it's just bad. At least I didn't have the miserable experience I've had with stuff like BvS, Ghostbusters, and X-Men Apocalypse.

    Yesterday I rewatched National Treasure. I was thinking about how that movie isn't exactly great, but it's about 10x more fun than almost every summer movie released this year. What is happening???

    By the way, I went back to Star Trek Beyond in 2D and liked it SO much more. So that movie is excluded from my rant. It helps when you can see what's going on. Skip the 3D kids!

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  11. This was such a fun podcast, guys! Too bad about them having no handle on Harley Quinn's story because what I just read of her backstory in the real comic books sounds kinda good. Sounds like they didn't have a handle on ANYTHING, though. Thanks for talking about Jared Leto's performance, because that's the only other thing I was curious about. And it sounds....EXACTLY as I imagined it would be.

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  12. You say that members of the Squad should have been trying to kill each other off but....this is a movie that is also trying to be an answer to the "whitewashing" thing in Hollywood. How do you then figure out who you're going to piss off by a) killing off that group's character or b) having that group's character do the killing?

    And don't know why the "nuclear family" fantasy of Harley's was such a surprise. Don't all male screenwriters think that all women want is to get married and change the man into something else?

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    1. Good point about the token value of the characters. When you say we supposedly want to marry and "change the man into something else" - would it be he becomes happy and fulfilled, or unhappy and tied down?

      I pretty actively seek out movies with fun ladies and end up not seeing these superhero ones (BatMAN, SuperMAN, IronMAN, HellBOY, Dark KNIGHT, Ant MAN, Wolverine, Green Lantern, Thor, Doctor Strange, on and on). I want to see Wonder Woman but not really if it constantly calls out to this giant DC man-universe. I find the DC and Marvel universes suffocating and it's overwhelming to even hear (in the podcast) about them constantly trying to connect the movies to each other. It sounds like a chore.

      In movies where women are obviously undeveloped-they're not fleshed out enough to even have dreams about getting married and changing a man, let alone get a character arc- I immediately think its BS and have a hard time not mentally checking out of for the rest. I don't know if its me being narrow minded (because why can't I just relate to the guys?) or just NATURAL when it feels so unfair and uneven.

      Maybe this week I'll try Sucker Punch. Heard that was good.

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    2. Sucker Punch is awesome! Also, don't know if you have a surround sound system but it's one of my favorites regarding the use of 5.1 audio.

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    3. Sucker Punch?

      The only "good" things about Sucker Punch is the ideas he stole from Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

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    4. Haha! Incorrect. Sucker Punch at it's most obvious is a visually stunning film. Still on the surface is an assault on your ears, The sound design and songs chosen totally fit the scenarios and are mixed to perfection. Deeper inside is a really tragic story of abuse, a well told story in my opinion with characters you root for. Brazil is great, no argument, but I'll take more away out of watching Sucker Punch all day. Yep, I said it :-)

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  13. Really enjoyable listen. Loved this two hours so much more than the two spent watching the movie. I was thinking it's a good thing Snake Plissken didn't have a daughter. He was just an a-hole villain from start to finish and it was one of the greatest characters/performances in movie history...

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    1. that's something that really turned me off right from the trailer. I'll call it "villains in name only." It's hard to call them villains when they team up, act like a big family, and say things like "Let's go save the world." I think the movie was really dragged down by the need to make it huge and epic (among, like, 700 other things). If you're going to call your main characters anti-heroes, they really need to be bastards like Snake Plissken or Porter from Payback.

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  14. Another great one fellas! Loved that it was two hours! Snowden voice KILLS!

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  15. Michael GiammarinoAugust 10, 2016 at 12:46 AM

    It's just frustrating. It feels like there's a good movie in there, but the reshoots constricted it from working. I've seen it twice now. The first time I kind of got sucked up into it and left thinking WB's tampering didn't really hurt it terribly, and I thought it was a mixed bag, with one quibble and one major gripe, both of which occurred during the third act -- which has led me to believe that it's the third act that fell victim to the reshoots the most, as far as scooping out a chunk and having it replaced with mediocrity. Enchantress fighting the squad with swords, Amanda Waller showing up perfectly dry and none the worse for wear, and Joker busting Harley out of Belle Reve wearing SWAT gear with JOKER emblazoned across the front... ugh. I really want to see Ayer's cut, especially after that Reddit list of deleted scenes appeared. Ayer says that scene of Joker busting Harley out of prison was shot during the first week of principal photography, but I can't say I believe him. I think Ayer's playing ball with WB. I think they're afraid if the public heard him say he had am alternate cut, they'll stay away from the theater in lieu of a director's cut Blu-ray. I think they presume they could've eked out a little more box office dollars from BvS's theatrical run if Chuck Roven, Deborah Roven, and Zack hadn't mentioned there was a longer cut coming. Ayer says this is his cut -- I don't believe him. I mean, maybe in the most rudimentary sense, it is his cut, in the sense that he was involved during the whole ordeal. Technically, he has 2 cuts of the film. He also says there's only somewhere around ten minutes of deleted scenes. Bullshit. When asked if any of those deleted scenes were Harley and Joker scenes, he said, "Maybe." Yeah, right. I think if next week's grosses dip like they did during BvS's second weekend, we'll hear a different story.

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    1. Michael GiammarinoAugust 10, 2016 at 12:48 AM

      Deborah Snyder*

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    2. In spite of it being a very bad movie in most terms, I liked Suicide Squad, for a couple of reasons. One of these is that the previous two DC films (and frankly pretty much every other WB/DC movie since The Dark Knight) have lowered the bar for me so much that it's now in the dirt. I dislike Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice for it's self-important pseudo-religiosity and joylessness and for being exactly the movie I was afraid it would be. Suicide Squad reminds me of 1997's Batman and Robin, which I can't believe I'm citing as a good thing. It's the most comic-booky thing WB has put on the screen in years, and I appreciate the sense un-realism at play here. The other reason I liked it so much is because I feel like I recognize these characters. Take away Joker's grill and tattoos (please) and I still recognize the Joker. Harley retains SOME of the depth that her comic counterpart possesses, though this cut of the movie (Ayer says there are 6 or 7 cuts) simply doesn't have the time to delve into how she has been manipulated by Joker (like Khan manipulates Marla McGivers in the Star Trek episode "Space Seed") and driven mad by him only to eventually own the madness and become empowered by it to become no man's plaything. I'd like to think the groundwork for that was laid in this movie in a small way. Deadshot reminds me of his old-school persona during the '80s, as does some of the Enchantress stuff. Suicide Squad works when it's allowing the characters to be characters and have moments. Unfortunately, it fails in just about every other area.

      What concerns me is the continued meddling by studios in the creative process. I guess we live in a world where movies no longer have an authorial voice and we are now unable to say "the new David Ayer film." Movie By Committee is a trend that's become more apparent over the last three years or so (it's been around for a long time), and I'm worried it's going to be the death of originality and thought-provoking cinema. I'm sick of 200 million dollar mediocre blockbusters that all look exactly the same because everyone is copying the latest success. I'm sick of studios green-lighting directors to make movies, then coming in and changing the vision of the project well into the production. It sure seems like WB wanted a gritty Suicide Squad but balked when people complained about the dullness of BvS:DoJ, so they pulled the rug out from under their director. This is currently happening with Rogue One: A Star Wars Story; Disney wanted a war film that didn't pull punches, something many older fans have been clamoring for, and that's what Gareth Edwards reportedly delivered. Well, that doesn't fit with the more mainstream, all-ages vibe of The Force Awakens, so they're changing what the movie is after the director shot it. When this happens, we almost invariably end up with a bunch of watered-down, compromised projects that are instantly forgettable. Creativity and directorial vision seems to have taken a backseat to shared universes and mega-franchises that are laid out years in advance, before a single film can succeed or fail. And if it does fail, you can always release a "director's cut" to fix everything. This is a movie marketplace in which I have virtually no interest, but unfortunately seems to be the way the studios are operating. If I can't go see the new David Ayer movie and feel confident that it's actually David Ayer's movie, maybe I should just stay home.

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    3. Well said Heath, if I hear don't worry there will be a Directors cut later one more time I might actually be sick, I want to see the Directors cut at the cinema with a crowd, not after the producers cut or editors version gets released first and taints the film, I am actually thinking of skipping the film to wait to see the Directors cut first on bluray but then I feel I have missed out on seeing it at the cinema, damned if you do, damned if you don't senario!

      Ps I did not know Rouge One was going through the same thing, this makes me very sad

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    4. Michael GiammarinoAugust 10, 2016 at 4:37 PM

      Heath, I liked Suicide Squad enough; I'm just frustrated by WB’s treatment of it. I really hope the linear cut of the film makes it to Blu-ray. If not with this upcoming release, then someday. I’m really hoping to see those deleted scenes reinstated. I enjoyed Man of Steel and Batman v Superman on a pulp level. Suicide Squad lowered the bar for me because now I'm afraid the studio is going to intrude on these films at every turn. Ayer calls Suicide Squad “an anarchic punk rock movie.” I don't think he expected the film to be as anarchic outside the text.

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    5. Michael GiammarinoAugust 10, 2016 at 7:57 PM

      Reshoots aren't really a big concern for me. They happen on every studio film. And studio tampering can either be a help or a hindrance. In the case of DC, WB interference is undoubtedly a hindrance. It'd be annoying if the preferred cuts of their films continue to make their debut on video rather than theatrically. That being said, I would like to see and own those versions. But I also want them to stop screwing with these movies and trust the filmmakers they hired to make the movies they were assigned to make. The longer they do this, they won't keep getting these lucky box office breaks.

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    6. Michael GiammarinoAugust 10, 2016 at 8:01 PM

      As for this whole Rogue One situation, I really don't think there's reason to panic. It's not the reshoots that concern me... it's seeing a Star Wars movie without an opening crawl. I don't know how it'll work.

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    7. I'm not worried about reshoots, just disappointed that so many people have had their hands on the movie that I know what we will see in December isn't what Edwards was hired to make. It could still be great, but it won't be the movie that he originally conceived and turned in. According to rumors going around with the shareholders, the board of executives has been very involved in the tone of post-production on Rogue One As they chase the success of Episode VII. That's not unexpected, but still a bummer to me. StudIos have always been involved in the creative process, but now they seem to be practically co-directing these movies. I'm thinking of Joss Whedon's struggle to get the second Avengers movie to screen and his talks of forced compromise.

      Dear WB: If your marketing for Suicide Squad is so misrepresentative of the actual movie that you have to bring in trailer editors to adjust the tone of the film, you've got a big problem in how you're doing business. Let these guys make the movie they see in their head and market THAT movie; don't market a movie that doesn't exist.

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    8. I've been worried about Rogue One ever since they announced Gareth Edwards as director. In this case, studio meddling can be a good thing because that guy had no clue what he was doing in Godzilla.

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    9. Adam I could not agree more. Hopefully it isn't a slap in the face to Star Wars fans like Godzilla was to Godzilla fans #FordBrody

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    10. Good point, guys. It's Godzilla in name only. I still love JB's joke, that it should have been called I Saw Godzilla. To further dump on what's happening with Rogue One, the guy that "assisted" Gareth Edwards assemble Godzilla is the same guy who's been brought in to work on Rogue One.

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    11. Michael GiammarinoAugust 11, 2016 at 7:13 PM

      Heath: Regarding Rogue One, we are in full agreement. Also, if you want to write an open letter to WB, send it in a tweet to WB. I'll like it and re-tweet it.

      Adam, Heath, Matt: I’m a bigtime Godzilla fan and I liked Gareth’s Godzilla, but I completely get why you guys were disappointed. Godzilla’s limited screen time I can deal with. The biggest mistake I think Gareth made was killing Bryan Cranston off so soon.

      Let's be fair, guys. The "guy" helping Gareth complete Rogue One is Tony Gilroy, who wrote the first four Bourne movies, The Cutting Edge (!), and wrote and directed Michael Clanton. He's no slouch. If you don't like Godzilla, that's fine, I get it. But I think Tony left Gareth’s vision alone in that film. God knows everyone likes to assign him full blame anyway. I'm still optimistic for Rogue One until I have reason not to be. And I certainly don't think Gareth's wingman is an issue. (Or is Gareth Tony's wingman?)

      But yes, I agree. Sometimes studio interference can be a good thing.

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    12. Michael GiammarinoAugust 11, 2016 at 7:14 PM

      *Michael Clayton.

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    13. Michael GiammarinoAugust 11, 2016 at 7:15 PM

      Heath: Regarding Rogue One, we are in full agreement. Also, if you want to write an open letter to WB, send it in a tweet to WB. I'll like it and re-tweet it.

      Adam, Heath, Matt: I’m a bigtime Godzilla fan and I liked Gareth’s Godzilla, but I completely get why you guys were disappointed. Godzilla’s limited screen time I can deal with. The biggest mistake I think Gareth made was killing Bryan Cranston off so soon.

      Let's be fair, guys. The "guy" helping Gareth complete Rogue One is Tony Gilroy, who wrote the first four Bourne movies, The Cutting Edge (!), and wrote and directed Michael Clanton. He's no slouch. If you don't like Godzilla, that's fine, I get it. But I think Tony left Gareth’s vision alone in that film. God knows everyone likes to assign him full blame anyway. I'm still optimistic for Rogue One until I have reason not to be. And I certainly don't think Gareth's wingman is an issue. (Or is Gareth Tony's wingman?)

      But yes, I agree. Sometimes studio interference can be a good thing.

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    14. Tony Gilroy is pretty inconsistent too. Michael Clayton is great though. We just don't know what we're going to get with Rogue One but adding Tony Gilroy doesn't sway me one way or the other.

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    15. Michael GiammarinoAugust 13, 2016 at 7:43 AM

      I know this is redundant before I ask, but what did everyone think of that new Rogue One trailer? Sure, the movie runs the risk of not meeting the expectations set by this trailer, but still... as movie lovers we're the very model of blind bf or gf. We get "lied" to over and over again, but we'll keep coming back, because maybe "this time it's for real."

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  16. There's a good movie in there somewhere but this was such a missed opportunity. Like Zack Snyder, David Ayer is a director who often likes to put style over substance which is the case once again here and all that is left is a hollow shell of a movie. The jokes were overplayed in the trailers and so in the movie have lost their humour. We have no attachment to the characters because each are given 5 minute introductions that mean very little to the audience. (This is the same worry I have for the Justice League movie). Instead of the worst of the worst which these villains are supposed to be they're are just presented as flawed rogues The soundtrack just seems like a cheap Deadpool rip off with songs that don't fit the scenes they are used for.

    Margot Robbie does her best to be the soul of the movie, the scene where she briefly lets her guard down following the crash of the Jokers helicopter is easily the best in the movie because it actually focuses on who the character really is. Deadshot is just a now typical Will Smith character, it's as if Chris Gardner from The Pursuit of Happiness has now taken up working as an assassin for his child.

    Having started out the year with a superhero movie which was a breath of fresh air the offerings have steadily gone downhill, with XMen: Apocalypse being the lowest point. Is Suicide Squad better than Batman v Superman I'm not sure, maybe it is, however I do think I'm more likely to rewatch Dawn of Justice before Suicide Sqaud, mainly thanks to those Batman scenes.

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    1. Michael GiammarinoAugust 11, 2016 at 7:22 PM

      Pretty much in full agreement with everything you say here, Ronan. I certainly think BvS is better. Especially the Ultimate Cut. (The theatrical cut does not exist in this dojo.) I'd really like to see Ayer's linear cut of Suicide Squad. (He's said recently there are probably well over 6 cuts of this movie. Sheesh.) Maybe they can call it The Joker Cut. After that, it's my hope that they stop meddling in their directors' visions.

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  17. Question: what was I supposed to feel when Harley meets back up with the team?
    A) Her shame and pride-swallowing (if this is what she was doing)
    B) Anger at her (as I think this is what the team was trying to show)
    C) Joy at her return
    D) Relief that we're coming to the requisite final CG fight under a circle of light and debris over a skyscraper

    If this became the movie that ended Rotten Tomatoes, I'd be so conflicted.

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    1. Michael GiammarinoAugust 13, 2016 at 7:51 AM

      I'd go with a combination of A and B. In the original cut, Joker didn't throw her off to save her. They'd gotten into am argument and he pushed her out to kill her. Her reaction to the squad was due to embarrassment for leaving them and getting rejected by Joker. (I really want to see that original cut.)

      One movie will never end Rotten Tomatoes. I find the whole petition situation ridiculous and moronic. Whoever created the petition obviously doesn't get the point or purpose of Rotten Tomatoes. And doesn't realize Warners OWNS Rotten Tomatoes. Isn't at least commendable that they're honest enough not to fudge the percentages their films get through the aggregate? I think so. At least they're honest and take it on the chin.

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  18. For Suicide Squad lovers & haters:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufHUBvR6ltg&list=PLQEJ_hXvQBRUCkltpvX90OoH4WXZ1d30O&index=10

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