I can appreciate JB’s stance without agreeing with it. I'm the guy who didn't hate Jurassic World (or, at the very least, play devil’s advocate with it because not too many other people would). I'm the guy who didn't hate Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. I'm a guy who didn't think X-men: Apocalypse was on par with X-men Origins: Wolverine (which I didn't hate on initial viewing; I saw the light quickly afterwards). Being part of the minority in liking a movie is a hard mountain to climb. I know. I've climbed it often. But not this time. This movie was painful to watch. I can say with no hesitation whatsoever it is the worst movie I have seen all year so far. It didn't feel truly like an Independence Day movie for me until Goldblum was reunited with Judd Hirsch, and that was probably an hour and a half into the movie. Jeff Goldblum didn't even seem like the same man we met in Independence Day. He shares a name with the man we met in ID4, and that's about it. I'm afraid it could ruin Maika Monroe’s career. Brent Spiner’s butt scratch gag (pun intended) makes even less sense because twenty minutes later he tries to force a joke (Spaceballs style) where he asks his partner why no one told him his butt was hanging out. The movie doesn't just play the ID4 trope redux game. It tries things that we know didn't work out in the first film, and utilizes the same character who told us it didn't work. Why would Okun, who told us how difficult it has been to break into the “big tamale” in the first film, suddenly make the same futile attempts to crack into the alien egg? Yes, it's a different species, but if he's been through this before and he's going to try it again, at least say something to the effect of, “This is probably not going to work, but let's try it anyway.” And at least warn the group in the bay that you're going to do it, don't just do it and pick up the pieces later when backfires. Patrick brought up the absence of Goldblum’s ex-wife in the movie. I say she should have been the president character. And if they couldn't get her to return, Sela Ward could have still played her. I will agree with JB that the giant queen was pretty well done, but it falls into the category of “nice effects reel” for me, because I found the movie around it to be atrocious. But it doesn't ruin the original film for me at all. If anything, it makes me appreciate the original film more. Thankfully, since I saw Independence Day: Resurgence, I have seen The Neon Demon, DePalma, The Shallows, and a Flashback Cinema screening of E.T. The Extra Terrestrial (which I am seeing again tonight). All of these films helped me cope with what I saw on Friday.
And I finally got to the R cut of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Whether you hated it or not, I would suggest you give it a watch, unless you flat out hated the theatrical cut and don't want to subject yourself to thirty more minutes of screen time. I get it, I really do. But the three hour cut is certainly an improvement on what was shown in theaters, and I recommend it wholeheartedly.
Is there really much in that would make it R rated? I'm curious what the R rated material would be.
There is some added violence, but what really surprised me was the language. I mean, it's not Scarface or The Devil's Rejects, but there's certainly a couple F bombs, a middle finger, and some g-d's, none of which came out of the mouths of Superman or Batman. I'm not criticizing it for that, but WB certainly let Snyder go as adult as possible. Which I don't mind, for the most part. The opposite end of the spectrum would be to pander to the eight year olds, and when they did that we got Batman & Robin. I think WB may have figured? "Well, nobody got too uptight with the adult nature of The Dark Knight, let's double down," and that either worked for you or it didn't. This may not be the Batman-Superman movie for some parents' children. That'll be Justice League, based on those recent set visit reports. The person who benefits the most from the new cut is Henry Cavill. They cut A LOT OF his stuff out. If you'd like to see him actually do some investigate reporter work, see it. If you want to see Superman saving more people, see it. If you want to find out the truth to why he was unable to save people in the Capitol, see it. And, if your major complaint with the theatrical release was the shoddy editing and misarranged scenes, see it asap. It's more than worth it.
Oh, and if a major complaint was "why the hell is Superman being framed for terrorists shot to death in Africa," he didn't, that whole sequence was gutted for the theatrical release. Watch the three hour cut.
Alright you convinced me ill check it out
Something I've been saying since the film's release was how cutting 30 whole minutes out of a three hour movie will always show. Believe me, it shows. There's pretty much no reason to watch the theatrical cut ever again.
I haven't seen BVS so gonna go straight to the extended cut when I do.
You should watch the Brent cut where you put the movie in and it's just a picture of a monkey fucking a coconut.
That might be the funniest thing I've ever read. Nice Boardinghouse pic!
Well, Manhattan Baby didn't deserve it.
There's nothing in that extended cut that changes the fact that the characters were written horribly, Jimmy Olsen was killed and Eisenberg plays Luthor like a bad stereotype of someone with Aspberger's.
I'll agree to disagree.
Adam R = Jurassic WorldHeath = The Amazing Spider-Man 2JB = Independence Day Resurgence
Just finished the podcast. I love Patrick meltdown episodes (he's right by the way on IDR). Congrats on 100 episodes JB! I find it fascinating that this is the one you went to bat for especially since you just saw the first Independence Day. This movie is some Good Day to Die Hard level shit. End rant.I'll email you about a GFest. I want to go to some of it.Lastly, in reference to IDR, stop calling it special effects people. There's nothing special about them.
Roland Emmerich is an asshole who made a shitty movie - Patrick Bromley, F This Movie
I had to stop the podcast because I couldn't stop laughing.
I'm with JB on this one. I had a lot of fun with this movie. Honestly, as much as everyone loves the first movie, it was just cheesy fun and so that's what I was expecting with this one. And it's exactly what I got. It was a blast and I was thoroughly entertained.
Seconded. No need to pipe in, you took the words out of my mouth.
I love that Emmerich makes these movies though (and White House Down was great, btw.) His next one about the Moon falling on Earth (Moonfall - HA!) sounds stupidly fantastic.
Do you think he's autistic and the only way he can communicate to other people is by killing them all?
I would say he's a doomsday nut. Probably used the money from ID4 to build a lavish shelter filled with all necessary supplies, including a Stargate portal.
Ooh, I want a Stargate portal!
Some movies are meant to be "dumb fun" and not to be taken too seriously. I mean, you have a movie about aliens returning to an earth that, through their advanced technology, should have destroyed(save a nuclear bomb by the earthlings) said planet a hundred times over the FIRST time. Twenty years later said alien species returns bigger and badder(by the looks of the trailer) and supposedly better prepared to fight off those pesky humans. Assuming the talks of a third movie are true, I assume *spoilers* that the aliens are beaten AGAIN in this one? I haven't watched it yet, but, when I do I don't expect it to be Citizen Kane level material. I do believe one can enjoy a movie without it passing the eye test or even the smell test(this movie STINKS!) Maybe I just enjoy being entertained, sometimes cerebrally and sometimes not.
I think one of my strengths as a critic is my ability to take movies on their own terms and I have gone to bat for many movies that others would easily dismiss. I promise my complaint about ID:R is not that it isn't Bergman. My complaint is that it is a bad version of "dumb fun" in that it is only dumb and never fun.
RunawayDuelRig has clearly never listen to the Fast and the Furious podcasts.
Oh I have Brian, and, you do bring up a good point. Patrick and the crew, to varying degrees, have given a pass to such movies as FATF. Those movies epitomize the "so ridiculous its entertaining" title. But that's the point I'm trying to make about dumb fun and ID2 in particular. How can one really critique "dumb fun" into "dumb" and "fun" categories? When I go to see a movie I know will be asking me to check my brain at the door, I sure expect to leave my brain out in the lobby and not think too much when it comes to FATF or ID2. If I don't like it I just won't see it. I'm really not trying to be an ass, but, they are just movies. I've seen every type of movie, with varying results. But each time I go in I leave my expectations outside the theater and just go in and enjoy a movie. I don't come out and categorize it into "meh, I see this wrong with it and this but that worked" etc. Of course I don't have a podcast and don't classify myself as a critic, but I do have movie love for good and bad movies as a movie lover. I guess I just enjoy movies instead of critiquing them. Again, that's not my job and probably what I'm not understanding. I do love the podcast, been listening for a couple years now Patrick(thank you for the reply to my comment above) and eagerly look forward to each new addition to the f this movie library. Keep up the good work.
I think the problem with making a "dumb fun" movie is that if it's not fun, you're just left with dumb. Full disclosure, I haven't seen this movie, and don't plan to. I'm actually one of those monsters who really dislikes the first Independence Day (the movie, not the revolution). I just don't buy into "turning my brain off" and having fun. I like my brain, I get a lot of pleasure from thinking. So dumb fun doesn't wholly appeal to me, with a few exceptions (long live Beverly Hills Cop 3!). But I don't think Patrick has a problem with expectations, he generally seems to take movies on their own terms. I think the divisive nature of this podcast shows that people are either way up for ID:R, or they're reallllly not.
To each their own I guess Brian. I watched the movie, I enjoyed it too. I wasn't left with any less gray matter for watching it. I would argue the actual movies that require one to use their brain are actually diminishing quite quickly. Hollywood is driven not by creativity but by profit margin anymore, thus, eliminating anything new and untested. The last movie I remember watching in the theater that actually caused a "what did I just watch? I might have to see that again" reaction was Inception. Great movie! Nolan's track record preceded that movie and my viewing of it. I expected a great movie and got one. Most days I just hope a movie keeps my attention and my enjoyment of said film is met rather than not. Here's to better cinema!
I'm with Team Patrick on this one. Sorry, JB.Resurgence has to be one of the most rushed movies I've ever seen. Whether this is due to the horrible script or Fox chopping it down to under 2hrs, there is barely any room for ideas or characters to breathe. There were so many times I thought "Was that the best take" when it came to performances or simple line readings. The main example was Bill Pullman's "On behalf of Planet Earth" one liner where he says it like he's on sedatives. As for what happened to the Margaret Colin character, the novelization of this garbage said she & David remarried but then she died in a car crash in 2009. Wow, what a classy way of writing her out, huh?Resurgence did provide me with a very weird theater experience. The crowd I saw it with on Sunday night was mostly made up of families. The little kids where laughing at almost all the "comedy" even the Brett Spiner butt crack gag. When the credits rolled, I swear at least half the crowd was clapping & cheering. It wasn't just the kids as I saw a lot of adults doing it too. I was speechless. There are more people on JB's side than we thought.
I have not yet seen the movie so I can't join in, but i am grateful for this movie even if the best thing about the movie is this podcast, it rarely happens that Patrick is affected so strongly but when it does it is a thing of beauty "Well worth the Big ass budget just for the Fthismovie podcast alone". Dennis Atherton
"That's so meta quoting yourself in your own post, Dennis!" -chaybee
"I agree with Dennis Atherton on this matter" -Matt Sollenberger
Haha, you guys are funny, it was supposed to be a movie quote for the poster, lol, but I'm sure you knew that.. Dennis Michael Mark Atherton. :)
Emmerich is planning on rebooting Stargate into a whole new trilogy of films. I think we should all be weary of it.
On JB's side here. It's so far from shit. It's not a "well what'd ya expect" scenario either. I'm always with Patrick there in that I expect a movie not to be shitty no matter what. But here I thought it was fun and loved the buffet of lifetime supporting characters on one plate. What I did take away that led me out of the theater with a smile was that it felt like it wanted to be a fun summer blockbuster. It had rah rah moments with humor and action. Most blockbusters now act like they are better or more sophisticated and aren't interested in being what they are. So many pukes over the last few years - Transcendence, Terminator Genysis, Transformers, TMNT (2 of them), Tomorrowland, Pan, Pixels, Fantastic Four, Hitman agent 47...ugh, none of those said Summer not to mention being awful. This was a fun June movie. Plus Maika Monroe goes a long way in my liking what's on screen.
Def with Patrick here, though I don't think I'm going to be forgetting this one anytime soon. As I watched this movie, all I kept thinking was, "I could be watching The Neon Demon right now." This was, for me, the epitome of what's wrong with blockbuster movies. Waking out of ID:R me and my girlfriend made a solomn vow to stop seeing movies like this and start watching movies like The Neon Demon.
Forgot to congratulate JB on 100 podcasts, you rock JB, cheers for all the knowledge and good movie chat
I will second that! Concrats. I always feel smarter after listening to Patrick and JB discuss movies. So thank you for the 100.
I get the feeling this will fall off of Patrick's top ten list before Christmas.
this movie is a war crime.
had to step into a conference room at work because i was laughing so hard at JB's tale of the man who declared "He shaved!" followed by Patrick's brilliant assessment of the situation: "Nice."
Congrats to JB for his 100 podcasts!This movie completely lost my interest when I saw the part about the ship the size of the Atlantic Ocean with it's own gravity effect. What that would do to the tides alone is a apocalyptic event. Then you add that they're drilling to the Earth's core...even if you stop it, the ocean water going into that hole is yet another way we're all dead. And there's been other movies that manage to get around what should be otherwise cataclysmic events on audience goodwill for the sake of "it went boom" at the climax (the ship crashing in Alien Resurrection, for instance) but this film is asking WAY too much.Kind of like I was kind of okay with The Day After Tomorrow until the idiots in the library start burning books for warmth when they're literally surrounded by wood furniture.ID4: Regurgitation just proves I think what I've always thought. Before filming in an interview Brent Spiner talked about having signed on to this film...and that it was a comedy. My theory has been that ID4 was originally supposed to be an over the top, jingoistic parody...but then they heard that Tim Burton was doing Mars Attacks as a comedy.One last thing....so what happened to Vivica A. Fox's son in the first movie? Did they say? Because that kid she had then wasn't Will Smith's. If so, she wouldn't have had to be a stripper and they would have been living on the base. If they were trying to say that was Smith's kid (and the pilot in this film) then they can't even get their continuity right.
Thanks, Kathy.Vivica A. Fox's son Dylan becomes a jet pilot in the sequel, just like his stepfather Will Smith. The filmmakers do mention that Smith was his stepdad.
Thanks. I haven't heard on reviewer call him his stepson.
I loved listening to this podcast even though I wanted to say: "guys don't fight!" the whole time. I'm #TeamJB on this one (I recognize I'm part of the problem). Congrats to JB on 100 Episodes. Here's to 100 more.
To be honest, what did everyone expect? Have you looked through Emmerich's filmography? (rhetorical question, you all know his movies)I know exactly what it'll be like. A big dumb fun-to-watch piece-of-shit movie, like all the others. That being said, I'm curiously drawn back to 2012 every couple of years, even though it's a LONG big dumb piece of shit, that is curiously fun to watch.I might be coming across as a negative...sorry. The worst thing a movie like this can be is boring, and I haven't heard that criticism yet. So put me in camp JB!!! (kidding, I haven't seen it)
Paul: I've been having a bit of a problem with this issue recently anyway, but: I fell asleep during the final fifth of this thing.
Glad you paid money. It's like MAGIC for dummies.
Well, indirectly. I use Moviepass, so I pay 40 bucks a month to see every movie that comes in my local market (which pretty much works out to one new movie every day...) but that shit stops existing in about two weeks, so c'est la vie.
LoL. Hope you can find an equivalent. May theater movies always be at your disposal. Peace.
It's not worth it to bother with theaters, and there's one that's a 5 minute walk from my house. I could not spend a dime on new movies and still have a movie a day to watch for the next ten years, assuming I still have an internet connection, even presuming I don't illegally download them. As you've pointed out, it simply is not in my best interest to spend 12 or possibly even 17 dollars to go see ID4:2, and wouldn't. I'm actually really pissed off, because the product was too good to be true as it was, and the providers realized it just a couple of months after I started using it. Bah!
So lame! Theaters are businesses and they need to compete with home theaters/large flat screens/computers/anything else with an internet connection. Most people don't give a shit and will wait for a movie to make it to their homes. I would think from a business perspective that their best interest is to get butts near their concession stand. My only thought is some contract with distributors makes this arrangement less than ideal. Jokes on them, the more they resist the closer things get to slipping away...and the theater experience doom. Entrenched businesses don't like change and why I won't waste money on ID:R until Video. I can buy it for less than the theaters experience would offer. Granted not as awesome but close and fiscally sound. Sorry for the rant. Go max out your movie pass.
Will do, man! They just can't compete. The death knell they've been fearing since the '50s (TV, then VCRs, and now finally cheap streaming/cable) is finally here.
Sure, it's all doom as long as you ignore the record box office numbers, the ever-growing worldwide market, and the fact that if theaters went away studios wouldn't just let those billions of dollars go and the end result would either be more expensive streaming services or each studio having their own service.
Don't forget the overspending on budgets, especially marketing, to the point that we can't even accurately estimate what the actual budget for something like BvS or Ghostbusters really is. There was no such thing as a 200mil budget 5 years ago, but desperation and bad decisions are pushing towards stuff like 180 million dollar disclosed budgets for stuff like Legend of Tarzan (rumored to just be to appease David Yates desire to do a Tarzan dream project so that he'd agree to helm the next slew of Harry Potter spin-offs; who the fuck cares if David Yates directs more Harry Potter? He made all the worst ones in the franchise, and was the one most single-handedly responsible for turning that franchise into a colorless slog after Goblet of Fire. HP7 part 1 is easily one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The decision to do this was made by the same man behind green-lighting Pan and Jupiter Ascending; at least 150mil and 184mil respectively, all at the same studio. At least that guy is gone now. The movies we're seeing now are the result of bone-headed decisions by clueless movie execs 7 years ago. Ghostbusters exists because of insane decisions made by Amy Pascal. It's all damage control over there until they figure out how to right ship and we won't know what those decisions are until around 5 years in the future. Amy Pascal is the genius who thought they were a shoo-in to make $12bil worldwide off a Superman vs. Amazing Superman crossover starring Tobey and Andrew Garfield and directed by Sam Raimi. She wanted Channing Tatum to play Venom. She wanted Mary Jane to become Carnage. She thought she could pull a whole Marvel Cinematic Universe out of one character.) I apologize for my rant, but no one is going to go broke underestimating the poor decision making skills of these folks. They luck into the hits they get. Deadpool makes a totally unexpected 7.6 hundred mil worldwide, is the biggest domestic opening weekend opening of all time? Great! Fox can make 3 or 4 more X-Men: Apocalypses (178mil prod budg.) I know you work in the industry, but whatever your bosses are telling you isn't true. I was at Barnes & Noble a few years, and people could see that ship sinking a decade out. It's to the point where that chain is willing to begin selling alcohol in store for a shot at staying alive. Start looking elsewhere, man. You're worth it. Use this time to beef up your education while you're still getting a paycheck.
Ouch?!? I guess camp Patrick then.(slinks off into the shadows clutching his worn copy of 2012).
corrections: *$12bil off the whole franchise, not one movie. *overestimating.
WTF Esadd?? And Spiderman, not Superman, obvs.
It's not a matter of what my bosses tell me, the numbers are out there for pretty much anyone to see. Star Wars: The Force Awakens made $2 billion worldwide at theaters ($936 million of that was domestic). If theaters disappeared tomorrow, even just in the U.S. do you honestly think Disney wouldn't try to make up that nearly $1 billion dollar shortfall elsewhere? Prices on streaming services and rentals would go up dramatically. There is no way you'd be paying what you are now to watch new stuff at home.U.S. box office numbers hit a record $11 billion for 2015. The first half of 2016 has kept pace with last year. This isn't a dying industry. There have been some big flops. That's true pretty much every year. Some studios have execs that make bad decisions. That's also always going to be the case, and it's going to continue to be the case regardless of where you watch your movies. If you prefer not to go to the theaters, hey I get it. There are a lot of valid reasons people don't like the experience of going out to watch movies. The notion that because you're going to stop going to the theater though, everyone else is going to stop going as well doesn't hold up in the face of the numbers.I don't want to sound like a shill for the industry I happen to work in, it's just that since I do work in it I tend to read a lot about the numbers.
Don't forget that just Force Awakens budget was 245 mil disclosed, on a franchise that is planning to release, what, three more trilogies? That's ten more movies, give or take? What happens when there are 20 Star Wars movies to pick from, all with 200 million $ budgets? These are just huge, nearly unimaginable to the average person numbers, and we expected to take on face value just what's making how much and how much is being spent and who is sharing what with who. Remember the Harry Potter profits memo? (http://deadline.com/2010/07/studio-shame-even-harry-potter-pic-loses-money-because-of-warner-bros-phony-baloney-accounting-51886/) When lucasfilm told David Prowse that Return of the Jedi had never made a profit? (http://www.slashfilm.com/lucasfilm-tells-darth-vader-that-return-of-the-jedi-hasnt-made-a-profit/)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accountingNever hold anything a movie studios tells you is true to be so just because they're insisting it is. There's a lot we just don't know about these numbers, and there isn't a ton of reasons to go out and deal with the whole experience. Went to a relatively early screening of Swiss Army Man tonight at 7pm, and there were at most 5 other people in the theater with me. Everybody else is going home and watching DVR'd espisodes of property brothers and hell's kitchen and watch what happens live and Drag Race, and letting their kids hang out on snapchat and play Overwatch. What the hell do half these things I'm saying even mean? When the entertainment business is so insanely glutted with options on how you ingest media and how you spend your time, and who's getting a slice of which pie, who really knows who's getting what money and where it's being spent? I know I sound like an insane person. We just all have to make up our own individual minds about what was worth to who in the entertainment arena, and you're not going to run into much besides specially constructed echo chambers regarding those answers where ever you go looking for them.
And watching Scare Pewdiepie while they watch James Corden clips on facebook while they play Happy Wheels and live stream Demon Souls campaigns. What? What smokescreens? Huh? Who?
Ant-Man had a budget of 130 million! What does that movie mean to us? Alright, enough of my nonsense now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHL91HQzhuc Rant over
The scope of the point you're trying to make has grown from Theaters to now encompassing the entire film industry. Even if I was an eloquent enough person to create a succinct response to such a large topic I'm reasonably sure this wouldn't be the place for me to do it so I'll simply bow out of this line of discussion.
I hate to say it, but I agree with both of you, but JB more. I had fun. But neither one of you mentioned how Jeff Goldblum's character suddenly can drive a school bus.
So this movie, I'm kind of on Patrick's side AND JB's side. Everything that Patrick said is 100 percent on the money yet I did end up getting some fun out of it like JB did. I ended up laughing a lot during this movie (unintentionally) whether it be at Vivica A Fox's ridiculously brief appearance or the poorly timed character beats ("You are a very brave man") or the idea that Judd Hirsch got knocked out oh so perfectly on top of his boat. The one thing this movie did have was a sense of playfulness unlike say Batman V Superman or X-Men Apocalypse. Just stick with the fighters Emmerich we could care less about the bus of kids who wear rabbit hats or random idiots who will help save the world for 100 MILLION DOLLARS (cue Dr Evil). I had fun but agree with Patrick I'll forget it real soon.
So many comments, wow! I'll be seeing this over the weekend, and will save the podcast for after the viewing.
The podcast is great! 5 stars! Hope you enjoy the movie.
Saw the movie last night. My buddy turned to me every couple of minutes to ask plot hole questions, and we left saying how bad the movie was. I did like Data, though.
Saw this opening day. My main issues were the terrible cgi and the fact that every obstacle was effortlessly figured out. The movie has no breathing room whatsoever. The China syndrome is apparent, hopefully this isn't another Terminator: Gynecologist or Warcraft scenario.
I'm certainly not a fan of this movie, but then I haven't liked most of Emmerich's movies in the past 20 years since the original Independence Day. I've often wondered if Stargate and Independence Day (and Universal Soldier to a lesser extent) were just lucky accidents and Emmerich himself never actually understood what people liked about them.There are a lot of ways that ID:R when wrong but I think my biggest problem was the one-dimensional new characters played by actors who maybe don't yet have the chops to find ways to somehow make these characters interesting.
Patrick is so angry lately, between this and the X-Men: Apocalypse pod I'm genuinely concerned. That being said, I've seen mixed reviews around the net for this one, don't really know what to think. Great show, but I'll be waiting for blu ray on this one.
I'm sure he's just pissed that it's eating into his Junesploitation time. I'm very thankful that the whole gang takes the time to make these podcasts/website/special events, especially Patrick.
JB: I grew up ten minutes from the Monroeville Mall, and my parents still live there. Have fun!
I´m more on Team Patrick, although I was mildly entertained by ID:R. But that movie really made me think about the fact, that my fellow german Emmerich hasn´t grown the least bit as a writer/director since ID4. Together with Godzilla and 10000 BC for me this is his worst movie.